King's School Hove: Everything you wanted to know but were too afraid to ask...

Checked out the website - it's pretty clear that the expression of interest is if you are considering King's as the first choice for your child! There is an email address for contact.

They may have had many hundreds of entries on their website but they won't all be expressions of positive interest - the problem is that completing the "expressions of interest" form is the only way you can leave a message on their website.

Hi Nigel, I heard King's had over 900 registrations for places, so it couldn't have been a low key campaign. Personally, I don't understand why you quote the council's 5 year plan on this website but you decided to campaign against the C of E secondary school and not the Muslim secondary school - both are clearly mentioned. All you have to do is contact New Schools Network for details of either. If you are so against both schools, why don't you change the name of your website / fb page? It makes you look discriminatory.

HI, this is Nigel, one of the parents involved in this campaign. Regarding the Iqra school we are as opposed to this as we are King's School. How could we not be? We want inclusive schools that our open to all children in our community. The Iqra school proposer have been even more low key than King's School (hard to believe but true) so making them even more difficult to oppose. If they get provisional funding then they will be obliged to consult publcly and we will be able to engage with them.

Do you not have a comment to make regarding the other faith school application for Hove? Where does this leave your anti-King's campaign?

So the Iqra school - free, faith and Hove based just like King's....

Hi Lou, you are absolutely right: it is the bi-lingual free school which has already been approved. It would be great if someone could start a campaign to oppose the muslim free school, too. Any takers!? Campaigns work best when they are locally rooted and the initiators have a personal stake, and for that reason I would be reluctant to expand our campaign to cover Brighton.

I think your information re the other free faith school application is incorrect. The propsed muslim school is in the current round of applications. As the Iqra facebook page states they will hear in April/May if they are successful. It also states that they propose an all age primary and secondary school to serve Brighton and Hove.

jofelicity - i don't work for / have connections with B&H Council, and wouldn't automatically defend the LA's policies on everything, but it is worth noting that the council doesn't necessarily support this free school proposal (see "Do We Need It" section), and there is certainly no evidence yet that there is a huge amount of support from BN3 parents for it. Free Schools and Academies are a direct attempt by the current (central) government to undermine local authority control of education under the disengenuous guise of 'empowering local communities'; in reality handing direction of possibly the most important thing of all in society - the education of our future generations - to unaccountable, unelected, profit-motivated corporations (religious-fronted or otherwise). Some LA's are playing along with this , as they agree with this ideology, but, to my knowledge B&H at present very much want to retain control of education. But the government is imposing it on reluctant LA's (and communities/parents).

We are opposed to all faith schools, no matter what the faith. However, the organisers of the Kings School No Thanks campaign all live in the BN3 area and are therefore directly affected by the Kings School application in a way that they are not affected by the muslim primary school. It would have been great if someone had run a similar campaign in Brighton to try to stop that before it was too late. As it is, the application for the muslim school has already been passed and is therefore a fait accompli. We do support the British Humanist Association's Say No to Faith Schools campaign, which opposes all faith schools.

there is a second application that has gone to the DfE in this round for a faith (muslim) free school in Brighton and Hove, also opening Sept 2012 to encompass primary and secondary; you don't seem to be making any noises or raising objections about this one - why not?

As one of the top 3 districts in the country with the highest proportion of people with no religious beliefs how disappointing that Brighton and Hove may consider the establishment of a new faith school in any way progressive or serving the needs of its residents.

The reality is that people who want this 'free school' are after private schooling on the cheap. They don't want to forgo their lifestyle, but truly believe that their children are too lovely to be subjected to classrooms filled with the local riff raff. Faith is a pretence -stand outside the catholic church on Portland Road and witness the demographic attending church - glum parents with glummer looking kids; the hypocrisy beggars belief!
Surely the way forward is to encourage dialogue between kids of different faiths and backgrounds, but perhaps that's exactly what the parents settig up this school want to avoid- their kids are far too special!

What is needed is a new community based high school in BN3 recruiting only within that area and not accepting or seeking pupils from a wider catchment minimising across travel by car and public transport. (This not the case with the only faith based secondary school, Cardinal Newman, and also the King’s School proposal if one reads it carefully, envisages a city wide catchment.)
Envisage a partnership with potential feeder schools such as West Hove, St Andrews and Summerhill.
The focus on only BN3 would make it easier for the school to complement the provision of secondary education by the other secondary schools in the townl.

Did you know that i costs the council £74,000 to provide free bus passes to children who 'have to' travel to a denominational school of their choice? And this at a time when the council is facing some really tough budget decisions due to centrally imposed funding cuts.

Vicki - of my three local primary schools, my 'choice' is limited to one. You, presumably, could choose between all three. The words 'choice' and faith schools do not go together. They increase choice for those on the inside, and decrease it for the others. And yes, I will have the option of sending my children to the two state secondary schools, and will do so. But faith schools and free schools both practice covert social selection which damage nearby state schools by creaming off students from stable and supportive backgrounds and pushing any 'problem' children that they don't want to deal with onto the local state schools pushing standards down. This is social segregation and ghettoisation, and is, of course, exactly what attracts a particular type of person to Kings School and makes people like me so angry.

At the moment, people who do not have a religion/faith can send their children to a number of schools in the B&H area without worrying their children may hear Christian values - but why not allow pupils to continue from Christian Primary Schools to Secondary?

At the moment, people who do not have a religion/faith can send their children to a number of schools in the B&H area without worrying their children may hear Christian values - but why not allow pupils to continue from Christian Primary Schools to Secondary?

Surely if there is a new faith school, there will be more places free for everyone else in this postcode perhaps you could ask Professor Dawkins to help fund an atheist/rational school instead ?

Every child born is a blank slate, and to teach them that one particular way of thinking is the Only Way and that any other way is wrong is reprehensible....this is why we have so much hatred in the world. Teach them to have an openmind and to tolerate all peoples no matter where, or how, they live. I think one of the most dangerous religions is Christianity as it teaches intolerance not acceptance; it's time people realised the Bible is a book of myths and legends, much like Grimms' fairy tales.

I object to children being brainwashed to believe in supernatural beings - of any sort or faith. All faiths claim to be the "one religion". They cant all be right - but they can all be wrong.

I am a concerned resident who supports the proposed Kings School. I thoink it is a great idea and oppose your campaign.

we need more faith schools in UK to return this country to its Christian Routes

Brentwood in Essex is a year ahead of you. It may interest those following this story in Hove to note that one of the Primary school heads that fronted the proposal with the RET has jost been "appointed" it's Head. He has no experience of teaching in secondary schools.
http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/New-head-taught-senior-pupils/story-15166547-detail/story.html
Regarding admissions you may also be interested in this official complaint to the DfE:
http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/974

The last thing B&H need is another faith school. What we DO need is a quality, all encompassing school that reflects our diverse, multi-cultural and Bohemian city. Kids benefit far more from experiencing a little bit of everything rather than one, sole and quite frankly old-fashioned view. No Thanks to Kings School.

Giving some children the opportunity to go to a new state school in their neighbourhood while excluding others only because their parents are not Christians is old-fashined and intolerant discrimination. Brighton & Hove is better than that.

Saying a school can have a 'distinctive character' is not the same as saying it should have a discriminatory admissions policy.

For anyone concerned also about the legalities of free schools, pls refer to the following link (David Wolfe is a legal advisor to Ipsea & founder of Matrix Chambers). He raises the important question of why on the Dfe website there are still no published funding agreements for free shcools. Should these not be, as he says, in the public domain? davidwolfe.org.uk

Brighton & Hove School Organisation Plan 2012 -2016, Draft "....We would look to partnership working to establish new schools...We would also expect each school to have its own distinctive character as parents and their children may prefer one type of school over another."

You are right that there is already postcode discrimination. However, creating new & unarguably-needed schools but based on faith just perpetuates the problem. Why should the general public have to pay their taxes to fund schools that select by faith? Will it really only be a 50% cohourt that aren't? Also, I would like to know what the SEN Policy is for this school. I have tried to locate that but have been unable to find it. If anyone can direct me, that would be really helpful.

Nicola, this is hardly segregation. Half can be atheist and the othe rhalf can be Christian or have a Christian hertitage. Thos children mix and they will mix outside of school. This is not the deep south of America. Stop worrying too much - next you will say there is segregation at Oxbridge because there is a disproprtionate numbe ro fprivate school children (you would actually have more of a point there)!

For those who say they are "discriminated against" or have no choice (even though there are two other secondary schools) just remember that the school your child is to go to is dependent upon where you live. So it is already discriminatory based upon income.

Is anyone aware of any legal challenges that have been made against faith schools? Does anyone have any legal knowledge that could help us here? Hove vs. Gove!

My husband is Italian & particularly worries about how his own country is now ruled by unelected technocrats (arguably better however than Berlusconi & increased corruption & greed). I however am much more concerned about what is happening to education in this country which is far more insidious & divisive. Of course changes need to be made in the way we raise our children, how teachers & leaders are trained & recruited, ensuring our schools do not become too big etc etc but to go about it in this way is worrying. Segregation ultimately only brings trouble for every single one of us however high you might build your walls.

The UK Equality Act 2010 reads 'schools cannot unlawfully discriminate against pupils because of their sex, race, disability, religion or belief and sexual orientation'

Did I miss something?

Source: http://www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/policiesandprocedures/equalityanddiversity/a0064570/the-equality-act-2010

If a new secondary school is needed then why can't it be an all inclusive, non-faith based school? If there is such a need for a Christian School how come the churches are empty on Sundays?

To The Editor

The prospect of yet another free/faith school in the city is disturbing. Access to education must be equal and fair for all, free from any religious dogma and offer the best for all prospective pupils.
The probelm with faith/free schools is that they inveitably select and this goes against all fundamentals of 'free at point of access' education. Access to school/education must be free from any kind of selection, otherwise a tiered system evolves that eventually excludes certain pupils (those that are perceived to have 'problems', those from more deprived backgrounds, those whose parents do not profess a religious faith).
Religion is a matter of personal choice and has its place in the education system but not as the basis for education. It can be devisive and exclusive, so it is better left out of the equation altogether. Yet another faith school in the area will narrow choice, not improve it. The opting out of schools into the 'faith/free' system means that overall pupils will suffer. Far better that we have a fully funded, new, modern state school which is open to all.
All evidence shows that faith/free schools, rather than promote choice, tolerance and academic excellence they actually promote the opposite, causing the further fracturing of society along racial, religious and class lines.
Parents should be free to bring up their children in the philosophy of their choice, but we must not indoctrinate those children, they need to make up their own minds about what is right/wrong, true/false, good/evil through informed access to the widest possible education, not through the filter of a specific, ideological dogma.
I will urge all interested parents to think very carefully about supporting another faith school in Brighton and Hove. The religious right has a disturbing undercurrent of extremist morality and judgment that is trying to influence not only our education but also out politics. Religion has no place in education or the state.

Someone further down this list mentioned the increased 'choice' that King's School represents for parents. Well, it only offers you choice if you tick the right boxes. Two out of three of my nearest primary schools are Christian schools, and are therefore closed to my children who are of the 'wrong' faith. We were lucky, we got them into a great non-faith school which was our first choice. The following year we wouldn't have got them in there, and would have been offered a school on the other side of town. Does that sound fair to anybody? OK, Kings School is going to be 'only' 50% Christian, but this still gives children from the 'right' background a huge advantage in getting in. And personally, I wouldn't send my children there because I would not want them to have to join in the collective worship, so I have less choice than a neighbour who was born CofE. Is that fair that non-Christians should have less choice than those who either are Christian or who are willing and able to pretend to be? Faith has no place in publicly funded education. Only self-interest can tell anyone otherwise.

They say they want to inspire a sense of community. But how will they do that when there are few, if not any, kids of other faiths in the school?

Also, the majority of the country has faith, so if you use logic to make decisions than having a faith school is not a bad idea. I don't think it is really possible for people to be brainwashed as they were in previous generations, so no need to worry too much. I am just glad that they believe in something. Here are the statistics :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom

King's School sounds great to me. It's FREE and children will be taught some VALUES. Okay, good. What's the problem ?

Let's not get too idealistic about all this. Every person of course chooses their own destiny, but better you have an education with a good heart and spirit ...

If you start moaning about so many things, you are really just preventing positive effort. After all why do the words FREE and VALUES make you afraid ? They are good things. Aren't they.

No , no, no to another faith school . 51% now say they have no faith. Chiurches are closing and yet this government is allowing faith schools to indoctrinate our children with superstition which is faith not fact. Keep politics and religion separate ..

Yes, we need a new secondary school. We need a good, local school for every child - a genuine mixed-ability comprehensive without any conditions of entry.
The way central government has 'organised' things these days is that academies and free schools are the only game in town if they have anything to do with it.
This makes the position of local government extremely difficult. But they need to come out of the bunker with their own proposals and tell us their plans as a matter of urgency.
If we like their plans, and see that central government is interfering with their implementation, then more of us will get involved with the strong movement to oppose the cuts and to have the will of the electorate prevail that already exists locally. Green activists need to get the council to show more backbone and remember they are a flagship for Greens in the country - but going by the many people I speak to, it seems at present they are alienating both the left and the right, and have little chance of re-election. (NB I am not a member of any party)

What is the issue with Free Schools (like they have in Sweden) ?

The site says : set their own pay and conditions for staff (if staff didn`t like it they don`t have to work there - they have a choice)
•employ teachers without qualified teacher status;
•determine their own admissions arrangements (it is extra capacity so there will be places at other schools for those who don't want to attend)
•decide upon their own curriculum (the students will still need to pass standard tests like GCSE's).
•set the length of terms and school days (what is the issue with this, parents and staff know the times/dates before joining) ; and
•operate independently of the local authority and outside the local family of schools (being independant of councillors is hardly a problem and they will still be inspected by OFSTED, and what is this family of schools?)

This is a great proposal. More school places and alleviation of over crowding. Who could be against it? Competition for students will drive standard sup because schools need to realise they provide a service, an important one. Why should every school (in theory) be the same? We all know what drives fgoo perforamce are a good Head Teacher and good, dedicated teachers along with parental involvement. This school provides extra spaces and at leats 50% will be fully open to secular members of the community. If you don`t want to attend, then go to one of the other two schools, it is called choice.

An understandable perspective Natalie Holmes. If the King's School proposal is unsuccessful, and if the D of E invite more Free School applications, then I will organise my own because I'm a parent who also wants more school provision in BN3. Unlike the King's School proposal I would propose a school that opens all its places to all children so that we'd get the widest possible choice for the families of Hove. I think a proposal on those lines would find almost universal appeal to the families of Brighton and Hove. The first step is to stop this proposal getting approved so i hope you will reconsider your position. All the best.

I am completely against segregation by religion in education but don't feel it would be right to sign your petition because the council has no plans to build a new school itself. The local secondary schools are already too big in my opinion, and the council's solution at primary level to force schools to keep expanding against their will is inadequate. The council will say they are not allowed to build a new community school and don't agree with free schools or academies, but that is not much of an argument if your child is going to be educated in a "satellite classroom". These kind of divisive proposals will keep coming forward while there is a shortage of school places. In short if the council doesn't provide a new school, someone else will, so the council should make the best of the world as it is and try to come up with a plan to serve everyone. Just because a school has been created as "free" doesn't mean it has to undercut union rates, have an unfair admissions policy or not work with other local schools. But well done for raising this as an issue.

I've asked the Kings School people a few questions via the email link on their website (which actually doesn't work until you trim the excess //s from it...) - over two weeks on, they haven't seen fit to answer me - here they are, for your interest: if they answer me, I'll update you:

1. Who is the "King" of the school's name?
2. Why are none of the "group of parents" named on your website?
3. How many parents are in the group?
4. What is the nature of your partnership with the Russell Education Trust?
5. Why is the contact phone number on your website that of an education services company in London?
6. What is the nature of your relationship with Education London, and why do you not mention it on your website?
7. How would you respond to the suggestion that your intention to "admit up to 50% of its students based on a faith criterion" in fact amounts to an intention to actively discriminate against children who come from a family which doesn't have a Christian belief (or who don't pretend to). (Pointing at Cardinal Newman and saying "but they do it" is not an answer to this question).

I urge everyone in Brighton and Hove, and especially the parents of the BN3 catchment area, to think about this proposal carefully. Even those people who may personally benefit should consider what is best for the whole BN3 community. Is it a school that is just for a few people? Or is it expanding the two existing schools that are open to everyone? Blatchington Mill and Hove Park are successful schools and the indications are that they will continue to improve. Shouldn't we help them to get better rather than taking resource away from them and from the Local Authority. Brighton and Hove City Council have made some excellent suggestions to increase secondary school provision across the City. Those proposals will be far less likely to get funding if a new school gets approval.

I agree with Roland. Faith schools will continue to foster ethnic segregation no matter how much religious leaders promote understanding. And selective schools usually take a less than representative sample of deprived children and more than their share of the children of ambitious and wealthier parents. We do not need another school like this in Hove.

Parents have the choice to impose whatever dogma or religious belief they chose on their children - and I am glad my children are growing up in a multi-cultural and religiously diverse country. Education that is state-funded should be free from any specific religious dogma. If you want to educate your child with specific religious views then pay for it yourself and don't ask the rest of us to.

Many countries' constitutions forbid state schools to have anything to do with religion, including the display of symbols like crosses, crucifixes, Stars of David and crescents. I believe this is true of Germany, France and the United States, for example. Those countries all know from bitter experience how divisive religion can be, so while ensuring freedom of religious observance, the framers of their constitutions considered the state itself should not itself be involved in any way. If only this country was so enlightened.

Margot, I would add that my own (primary school attending) children are effectively barred from attending our local primary school in Hove - St Andrew's. Here's a link to their admissions policy. There's 11 criteria before non-church attenders get a look in - http://bit.ly/yjWAN6 - that said, my opposition is as much about the Free School concept which is expensive, divisive and unhelpful (whilst portrayed as increasing parental choice). I believe in a true comprehensive education system.

There is plenty of evidence that faith schools achieve better results because of covert social selection, not better quality teaching. My daughters attend a secular school which also has an 'excellent ethos and discipline'. These are not exclusive to faith schools. I'm not sure what you mean by 'Family Values' but it sounds like Tory speak for being married, not being gay or a single parent. Please elaborate.
It seems rather irrelevant and personal to mention that I went to a private school (not to mention big brotherish, presumably you are snooping around my Facebook page?). For the record I attended a fee-paying school on a government funded assisted place (a scheme I benefitted from but thoroughly disapprove of). I enjoyed my time there, but in retrospect feel that the rarified and selective atmosphere is not something I want for society or my children. I want inclusive education for all!

Louisa, whether or not people attend church, the facts are that many faith schools have the best results. This is based on an ethos of discipline, family values and work ethic.

I attended two brilliant C of E primary schools here in Brighton and I'm certainly not of the Christian faith. They taught tolerance, equality and we had excellent results. Children from all faiths- and none- attended and the schools were oversubscribed.

Perhaps having attended a fee paying school you don't appreciate the importance of a good, free education wiithout the interference of local authority educational dogma (which is worse than teaching religion imo).

Why should the tax payer fund religious instruction? Why aren't all schools aiming to model a tolerant, inclusive society? Faith schools discriminate against sections of the community. Free Schools are expensive, divisive and undermine existing local schools.

In response to your comment Margot, less than 15% of the UK population are regular churchgoers, yet Kings School's intake will be at least 50% Christian (possibly higher based on similar situation at Becket Keys School, Essex). This is clearly discriminatory. Louisa

Why don't you want to give parents want they want away from local authority stranglehold control.?

The prrof of whether it turns out to be a thriving school is if it becomes oversubscribed. And how can it be discriminatory if only 50% of intake need to be Christian, Surely it's more discrminatory not to give parents the freedom to set up their own schools free at the point of use.

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Yes, this proposed school needs to be forcefully opposed. How outrageous that people that believers in some mysterious force get to have half a school reserved for their mob paid for by all of us! All state schools should be non-selective and non-relgious.

Only three weeks to go before the decision will be made! Inform yourself now and decide if you think this is good for your children and fair for the whole community before it's too late!